Played well in the second half, but still a tough loss to swallow. With no push up front by the D-Line, and Opelt and Dantin hobbled, hard to win against anyone, really.

I like what the coaching staff has done so far with everything outside of the on the field results, but we just don't have the talent.

So far I like the recruits that we're bringing in. We're getting some stud guys, with solid academics, who I think will bring the program back to what we were in the early 2000's. It's not going to happen overnight though. I will continue to support the team, despite the season not turning out how everyone would like. Character is revealed during times of adversity. I'm not ready to give up.

what are you seeing that I'm not?

agree with Shrakk. optimism is wearing out

(10-31-2009 06:17 PM)MiamiRocket Wrote:  Played well in the second half, but still a tough loss to swallow. With no push up front by the D-Line, and Opelt and Dantin hobbled, hard to win against anyone, really.

I like what the coaching staff has done so far with everything outside of the on the field results, but we just don't have the talent.

So far I like the recruits that we're bringing in. We're getting some stud guys, with solid academics, who I think will bring the program back to what we were in the early 2000's. It's not going to happen overnight though. I will continue to support the team, despite the season not turning out how everyone would like. Character is revealed during times of adversity. I'm not ready to give up.

Pass the Kool-Aid---I need a shot at the moment. Underachieving because of poor execution (dropped passes, fumbles, a barrage of penalites (often after the whistle), being out of position, and having more highs and (particularly) lows than an institution full of manic/depressives-----none of which has to do with talent----has become a way of life for this program over the last 5-6 years and despite the cheerleading I don't see much difference this year---teams are either getting better or they are getting worse and this one seems to be getting worse-----and the "3rd String QB" excuse won't fly today---of the 3, Pettee had the best game tonight; however in the end, he did not have enough support.

As I have said all week, a loss to a team that has hadn't won all season
is unacceptable. I don't care what anybody says about this one.
Obviously the team wasn't prepared for this one. Being beat by superior personnel is one thing.Losing the game because you beat yourself with mistakes is ridiculous. Being beat by a team that is Bottom 10 let alone maybe the worst team in Division I team is a new all time low.Look for UT to be in the Bottom 10.

whats the record for lowest attendance at a home game? I think it's about to be shattered... WTG Coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Men's basketball starts Nov. 14th and the Women start Nov. 13th.

(10-31-2009 07:56 PM)utpotts Wrote:  Men's basketball starts Nov. 14th and the Women start Nov. 13th.

The men's team is probably too young to do much this year, but the women's team should be able to have a reasonable shot of getting back to the top of the MAC after a few years absence---The UT/BG game this year should create a lot of interest.

While disappointing, for sure, what we are seeing should come as no surprise. When is the last time Toledo was good on defense, 2001? And even that season had a couple of clunkers. Previous staff took their eye off of recruiting that side of the ball. I'm not ready to bash the new staff just yet. They inherited a mess. Just because you have 20 seniors doesn't mean they can play. I'm not here to criticize any kids, but this team is just not that good. It makes me sick to my stomach, especially today's games, but I'm with MiamiRocket. Gotta believe better days are ahead, but they might not be tomorrow.

(10-31-2009 08:10 PM)SPROCKETS Wrote:  While disappointing, for sure, what we are seeing should come as no surprise.

Losing to an 0-8 team when you are (allegedly) fighting for a possible bowl should come as a surprise. It did to me.

(10-31-2009 08:10 PM)SPROCKETS Wrote:  . Just because you have 20 seniors doesn't mean they can play.

then what the hell have they been doing the last 4 years???????

(10-31-2009 06:17 PM)MiamiRocket Wrote:  Played well in the second half, but still a tough loss to swallow. With no push up front by the D-Line, and Opelt and Dantin hobbled, hard to win against anyone, really.

I like what the coaching staff has done so far with everything outside of the on the field results, but we just don't have the talent.

So far I like the recruits that we're bringing in. We're getting some stud guys, with solid academics, who I think will bring the program back to what we were in the early 2000's. It's not going to happen overnight though. I will continue to support the team, despite the season not turning out how everyone would like. Character is revealed during times of adversity. I'm not ready to give up.

Seriously, patience is running thin. There is no excuse for this loss. STOP with the
lack of talent BS. We have more than enough talent to contend in the MAC. We just lost to an 0-8 team. We hired a DC as our Head man. His Defense is worse than it was last year, if that is possible. Every team does what ever they want to us. This program is in trouble. Right now I see no reason to be optimistic that this staff is doing anything to improve our performance on the field.

(10-31-2009 08:10 PM)SPROCKETS Wrote:  While disappointing, for sure, what we are seeing should come as no surprise. When is the last time Toledo was good on defense, 2001? And even that season had a couple of clunkers. Previous staff took their eye off of recruiting that side of the ball. I'm not ready to bash the new staff just yet. They inherited a mess. Just because you have 20 seniors doesn't mean they can play. I'm not here to criticize any kids, but this team is just not that good. It makes me sick to my stomach, especially today's games, but I'm with MiamiRocket. Gotta believe better days are ahead, but they might not be tomorrow.

Rockets didn't lose this one because Miami had more talent. UT had almost 3x as much penalty yardage as MU and twice as many turnovers.
The penalty yardage is particularly disturbing. Especially this late in the year. If you haven't noticed the Rockets haven't been as aggressive as earlier in the year on defense. Not a single int from a freshman QB that put the FB up 51 times.That's a bunch of crap.

(10-31-2009 08:10 PM)SPROCKETS Wrote:  . Just because you have 20 seniors doesn't mean they can play.

they can't do much sitting the bench in favor of Beckmans recruits who are looking like crap out there.

think it's time for the coach to ask WWJD(What Would Jimtressel Do?)

(10-31-2009 09:18 PM)sylvaniarocketfan1 Wrote:  think it's time for the coach to ask WWJD(What Would Jimtressel Do?)

Instead....he asks, "What would GB do?"

(10-31-2009 07:53 PM)sylvaniarocketfan1 Wrote:  whats the record for lowest attendance at a home game? I think it's about to be shattered... WTG Coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is unfortunate how this season played out. Beckman built up all the momentum with fans and got everyone fired up. Unfortunately, the team decided that they didn't need to come fired up against certain teams and they paid the price. There is no way our team sucks one half and then is all the sudden pretty good the second half. That is simply coming out "flat" because you think you are better.

(10-31-2009 08:53 PM)owen Wrote:  

(10-31-2009 08:10 PM)SPROCKETS Wrote:  While disappointing, for sure, what we are seeing should come as no surprise.

Losing to an 0-8 team when you are (allegedly) fighting for a possible bowl should come as a surprise. It did to me.

Well stated

(11-01-2009 07:20 AM)stpeterocketfan Wrote:  

(10-31-2009 07:53 PM)sylvaniarocketfan1 Wrote:  whats the record for lowest attendance at a home game? I think it's about to be shattered... WTG Coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is unfortunate how this season played out. Beckman built up all the momentum with fans and got everyone fired up. Unfortunately, the team decided that they didn't need to come fired up against certain teams and they paid the price. There is no way our team sucks one half and then is all the sudden pretty good the second half. That is simply coming out "flat" because you think you are better.

Very well said....your last comment is dead on...WMU, Temple, Miami...I'll bet it was in these kids' heads that they won the game before the first ball was snapped. I saw the difference between the two team's approach during warm-ups at the Temple game. If this attitude persists, EMU has one sure win!.

(11-01-2009 07:20 AM)stpeterocketfan Wrote:  

(10-31-2009 07:53 PM)sylvaniarocketfan1 Wrote:  whats the record for lowest attendance at a home game? I think it's about to be shattered... WTG Coach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is unfortunate how this season played out. Beckman built up all the momentum with fans and got everyone fired up. Unfortunately, the team decided that they didn't need to come fired up against certain teams and they paid the price. There is no way our team sucks one half and then is all the sudden pretty good the second half. That is simply coming out "flat" because you think you are better.

One of the things I've noticed the past couple years is that it seems like the team gets "up" for big non-con games, then seems to kick back for MAC games. I think yesterday demonstrated how that tendency is a road to nowhere.

Can you feel the frustration???????? If not, then you have issues!!!!! I am sure the frustration is much greater in the locker room. Some points about the team in general that I agree with: 1 Level of Talent on the team is low. 2 Beckman should place some favor on his recruits. 3 Show me a team with this many freshman on the field that is contending for a conference title...... 4. Miami Rocket is dead on, this kind of rebuild for a team takes years, not weeks. 5. Those of you dreaming of a Bowl Game this year need to wake up!!! 6. If you want to beat Toledo, pass up the middle and put pressure on the UT QB.... 7. Under Amstutz this team would be winless 8. I could keep going, fact is our once well oiled machine is in need of a serious overhaul, Beckman has just started to put it back together. Believe it or not he has started, he has won four games, more than what the Amstutz era would have produced. Football games are won up front. Toledo does not have a line on either side of the ball. I am sure Beckman is out recruiting Linemen like crazy. If we can bring in some true linemen for the next few years, Toledo Football will once again be promising and dominant, until that happens, be prepared to get kicked in the gut on saturdays.

(11-01-2009 09:35 AM)BusDriver Wrote:  Football games are won up front. Toledo does not have a line on either side of the ball. I am sure Beckman is out recruiting Linemen like crazy. If we can bring in some true linemen for the next few years, Toledo Football will once again be promising and dominant, until that happens, be prepared to get kicked in the gut on saturdays.

Agreed. Especially the D-Line. We can't get any pressure on the QB when we rush 4 - so the QB has all day to find an open receiver (which he often does due to our freshmen CBs playing soft) or find an open running lane when nothing is there. They're also small, and don't get much of a push, so our opponents have an easy time running the ball as well. When our safeties and linebackers support the pass rush, we get to the QB more often, but you have receivers running wide open with not a single defender within 5 - 10 yards, and good QBs will take advantage (e.g. Hiller in the WMU game).

Outside of QB, I think the D-Line is the most important position on a team. And it's arguably our #1 weakness. Beckman is addressing the issue. We already have some solid D-Line commits for next year (one is a 3 star). And I am sure he is out there looking for more as we speak.

On the offensive side of the ball, we're bringing in some solid linemen as well. It just takes time though. The sky isn't falling yet.

Recruiting and getting....



Presumming the above post to be correct (and I have no reason to doubt), how exactly did we get in a situation of being short on linemen? Schollies were limited, right? Were some dismissed for grades or other reason? There were some injuries preseason, I thought those were o-line?

What are the reasons a higher ranked lineman would want to come to Toledo versus elsewhere?

Personally, I still feel too many drives were not given a chance due to coaching decisions. Match-ups can always be an issue but I still think we put the needed talent and match-ups on the field against W. Mich and Temple and certainly Miami, but am willing to listen to this "lack of talent" case if put in a logical (i.e. non-pottsy) manner.

Going back to 2006, here's what we've brought in on the D-Line:

2006 - Nate Cole (now on the O-Line), Maurice Hill, Skylaar Constant, Joe Underwood (no longer with the team?), Douglas Westbrook
2007 - None
2008 - Danny Farr (now on the O-Line), Malcolm Riley, Albertson Alexandre (no longer with team), Hank Keighley
2009 - Ben Pike, Christian Smith, T.J. Fatinikun, Ben Steele, Johnnie Roberts

On the current roster, we also have 3 converted linebackers (Alex Johnson, Derrick Summers, Terrell Willis) and 1 converted tight end (Jonathan Lamb).

The current 2-deep on the D-Line consists of: Skylaar Constant, Alex Johnson, Derrick Summers, Malcolm Riley, Maurice Hill, Douglas Westbrook, and T.J. Fatinikun.

That means that on our entire roster, the only upperclassmen on the D-Line who were recruited to play that position are Maurice Hill and Skylaar Constant. The others have been converted from other positions out of necessity to fill the void. The average weight of a player from those listed on the 2-deep is 255 pounds. That's pretty undersized ... in addition to the fact that many of them recently had to learn the new position with on the job training.

Beckman has started to correct the problem. Last year was a difficult one in terms of recruiting, due to the limited amount of time and having to work on the fly, but we still brought in some solid talent. This year already, we have 2 solid D-Line commits (in fairness, one is a linebacker, but is already 250 pounds and plans to be a solid 270 by next year) and hopefully, 1 or 2 more will be on their way.

Next year we are losing Summers and Hill, so we will be relatively young on the interior again. We need some guys to step up. Riley has some talent, and will be a nice player. I haven't seen Roberts play at all, but I know that he's around 300 pounds and is using this year to get in playing shape and learn the system. I also haven't seen any of the other 2009 recruits, except for Fatinikun. I think he has some potential to be a good speed rusher on the outside, but we will see.

I will leave it at that for now. I don't know if I missed anyone, there are probably some errors. Anyone else, feel free to add.

John Lamb played TE and DL in high school, but was recruited to Toledo by the old staff as a DE. They ended up moving him from DE to DT during that first season.

(11-01-2009 11:02 AM)MiamiRocket Wrote:  Going back to 2006, here's what we've brought in on the D-Line:

2006 - Nate Cole (now on the O-Line), Maurice Hill, Skylaar Constant, Joe Underwood (no longer with the team?), Douglas Westbrook
2007 - None
2008 - Danny Farr (now on the O-Line), Malcolm Riley, Albertson Alexandre (no longer with team), Hank Keighley
2009 - Ben Pike, Christian Smith, T.J. Fatinikun, Ben Steele, Johnnie Roberts

On the current roster, we also have 3 converted linebackers (Alex Johnson, Derrick Summers, Terrell Willis) and 1 converted tight end (Jonathan Lamb).

The current 2-deep on the D-Line consists of: Skylaar Constant, Alex Johnson, Derrick Summers, Malcolm Riley, Maurice Hill, Douglas Westbrook, and T.J. Fatinikun.

That means that on our entire roster, the only upperclassmen on the D-Line who were recruited to play that position are Maurice Hill and Skylaar Constant. The others have been converted from other positions out of necessity to fill the void. The average weight of a player from those listed on the 2-deep is 255 pounds. That's pretty undersized ... in addition to the fact that many of them recently had to learn the new position with on the job training.

Beckman has started to correct the problem. Last year was a difficult one in terms of recruiting, due to the limited amount of time and having to work on the fly, but we still brought in some solid talent. This year already, we have 2 solid D-Line commits (in fairness, one is a linebacker, but is already 250 pounds and plans to be a solid 270 by next year) and hopefully, 1 or 2 more will be on their way.

Next year we are losing Summers and Hill, so we will be relatively young on the interior again. We need some guys to step up. Riley has some talent, and will be a nice player. I haven't seen Roberts play at all, but I know that he's around 300 pounds and is using this year to get in playing shape and learn the system. I also haven't seen any of the other 2009 recruits, except for Fatinikun. I think he has some potential to be a good speed rusher on the outside, but we will see.

I will leave it at that for now. I don't know if I missed anyone, there are probably some errors. Anyone else, feel free to add.

Makes you wonder why guys like Roberts and Smith haven't had a chance to play. Beckman has thrown practically every other Freshman out there to play. Why not move a guy like Farr to DL?? Do something the improve with what you have on the roster, if obvious coaching, or lack there of, isn't helping.

(11-01-2009 11:02 AM)MiamiRocket Wrote:  Going back to 2006, here's what we've brought in on the D-Line:

I will leave it at that for now. I don't know if I missed anyone, there are probably some errors. Anyone else, feel free to add.

I will add.

I think the same can be said about 95% non-BCS conference D-Lines. There aren't enough DL recruits to go around to all of division I.

And I am not as convinced we are getting better as the rest of you.

I hated what happened the last 3 seasons under Amstutz but I thought he was a good coach. There was no choice but to demand change. So I don't want to go back into revisionist history and suggest Amstutz didn't have his problems. Or, that the team didn't absolutely suck. I just had more faith in him than the current rookie regime.

Beckman now has the advantage of knowing where he has to fill holes. When Saban came into the program and made a big turnaround, it was after a 6-5 season and a young QB (Meger) coming off a freshman season (If I remember correctly) where he led an inspiring comback in the last home game of the season. Saban took that team to a 9-2 season and could have had a win against Central Michigan if replays were in use at the time, and we weren't getting hosed on a penalty call in that game as well. Beckman is probably not a Saban - but how many coaches are? We need him to get good MAC players, develop them, and keep them in the program. We have solid players coming back. Biggest concern is what has been addressed in other comments - why we don't come out fired up and why we get hit with so many penalties. Those are coaching issues to be addressed.

We are not going to beat CMU. We are probably going to be embarrassed by CMU. If we can beat EMU and BG - I have reason to be optimistic heading into next year. If we only manage to beat EMU - not optimistic at all. If we lose all three games - I'll have some of that Kool-Aid please.

(11-01-2009 11:22 AM)owen Wrote:  I hated what happened the last 3 seasons under Amstutz but I thought he was a good coach. There was no choice but to demand change. So I don't want to go back into revisionist history and suggest Amstutz didn't have his problems. Or, that the team didn't absolutely suck. I just had more faith in him than the current rookie regime.

Why more faith in Amstutz? In my opinion, the program was slowly and progressively decaying under his regime. If the whole Scootergate fiasco hadn't erupted, then who knows how low we would've sunk.

I take solace in the fact that the off the field shenanigans have been cleaned up. Players are representing UT well in the community and working hard to be solid student athletes. I think we will turn the corner on the football field eventually, but it's going to take some time. Football is a team sport. Just because we have a couple of amazing athletes at the skilled positions and Barry Church doesn't equate to winning football games. When you have the combination of weaknesses that we do, it would be hard for any coach to put together a scheme to win games.

(11-01-2009 11:39 AM)MiamiRocket Wrote:  

(11-01-2009 11:22 AM)owen Wrote:  I hated what happened the last 3 seasons under Amstutz but I thought he was a good coach. There was no choice but to demand change. So I don't want to go back into revisionist history and suggest Amstutz didn't have his problems. Or, that the team didn't absolutely suck. I just had more faith in him than the current rookie regime.

Why more faith in Amstutz? In my opinion, the program was slowly and progressively decaying under his regime. If the whole Scootergate fiasco hadn't erupted, then who knows how low we would've sunk.

I take solace in the fact that the off the field shenanigans have been cleaned up. Players are representing UT well in the community and working hard to be solid student athletes. I think we will turn the corner on the football field eventually, but it's going to take some time. Football is a team sport. Just because we have a couple of amazing athletes at the skilled positions and Barry Church doesn't equate to winning football games. When you have the combination of weaknesses that we do, it would be hard for any coach to put together a scheme to win games.

Stutz built up a lot of capital over the years first with strong defenses as DC and then early successes as the HC. He would have probably been given the benefit of the doubt for another year or two of poor on-the-field performances if not for the frequent off-the-field team embarrassments to the University. In comparison, Beckman, is still pretty much an unknown quantity although upon his arrival he seemed to say and do all the right things. Bad off-the-field behavior can get a coach fired, but in the end, good-off-the-field behavior will not compensate for losing on the field. However, it is way too soon to reach a verdict on the Beckman era one way or the other yet----ultimately that will depend on how his teams perform on the field once he has at least several recruiting classes (3 or 4) behind him.

Still, I am still concerned that you never know from one game to the next (or even one half to the next) which Rocket team is going to show up ----some of that may be attributed to bad habits formed in the past, but some has to rest on the coaching staff for not preparing the team properly and thus not "putting them in the position to be successful" as the current mantra goes.

(11-01-2009 11:39 AM)MiamiRocket Wrote:  When you have the combination of weaknesses that we do, it would be hard for any coach to put together a scheme to win games.

Perhaps true but there's still the play calls to address. The pass - pass combinations on short and second when the D needs time to rest. Yesterday was the first I recall him going for a 4th and short and he really had no choice. Just a review of the season's threads indicates there's more here than an on-field talent issue or even a new coach issue.

Who is calling the offense?

(11-01-2009 02:09 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  Who is calling the offense?

The guy that won national championships at the DI-AA level with Appalachian State, and beat Michigan a couple of years ago.

Why are we questioning his play calling? Before Opelt got hurt we were doing pretty well on offense, ranked in the top ten in total offense. Unfortunately with Lenehan getting kicked off the team, we don't have much depth behind Opelt and had to play a true freshman (Austin Dantin) that is still learning the college game. Then when he got hurt the 3rd string QB had to play. We had 444 yards of total offense, including 216 on the ground, and we are questioning the play calling on offense?

We never had to play a true freshman at qb, Beckman chose to. Pettee looked good in the spring game(much better than Lenehan imo) and has shown on the field when put in that he can handle it.

(11-01-2009 11:39 AM)MiamiRocket Wrote:  Why more faith in Amstutz? In my opinion, the program was slowly and progressively decaying under his regime. If the whole Scootergate fiasco hadn't erupted, then who knows how low we would've sunk.

I take solace in the fact that the off the field shenanigans have been cleaned up. Players are representing UT well in the community and working hard to be solid student athletes.

Tom took a few chances on kids that wound up failing, like that RB who stole from the bookstore. And of course Scooter embarassment that looks like way more of a basketball issue than football.

But I resent that you think the athletes did not do community service under Amstutz. There were many good citizen student athletes on Tom's teams.

And going back to Scooter, he had to work hard in the classroom to get eligible and help us win a MAC Championship. Even our biggest black eye showed promise at one time but injury effected his morale irrreparably.

We were losing and it was a sad state of affairs but Tom and most of his players were not scoundrels.

(11-01-2009 02:03 PM)T-Town Wrote:  Stutz built up a lot of capital over the years first with strong defenses as DC and then early successes as the HC. He would have probably been given the benefit of the doubt for another year or two of poor on-the-field performances if not for the frequent off-the-field team embarrassments to the University.

Yup

(11-01-2009 02:03 PM)T-Town Wrote:  In comparison, Beckman, is still pretty much an unknown quantity although upon his arrival he seemed to say and do all the right things.

Yup

(11-01-2009 02:03 PM)T-Town Wrote:  Still, I am still concerned that you never know from one game to the next (or even one half to the next) which Rocket team is going to show up ----some of that may be attributed to bad habits formed in the past, but some has to rest on the coaching staff for not preparing the team properly and thus not "putting them in the position to be successful" as the current mantra goes.

Agree big time

(11-01-2009 03:21 PM)owen Wrote:  We were losing and it was a sad state of affairs but Tom and most of his players were not scoundrels.

I agree. Unfortunately, there were a few bad apples who ruined it for everyone, and ultimately the coaches are held responsible.

(11-01-2009 11:36 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  Beckman now has the advantage of knowing where he has to fill holes. When Saban came into the program and made a big turnaround, it was after a 6-5 season and a young QB (Meger) coming off a freshman season (If I remember correctly) where he led an inspiring comback in the last home game of the season. Saban took that team to a 9-2 season and could have had a win against Central Michigan if replays were in use at the time, and we weren't getting hosed on a penalty call in that game as well. Beckman is probably not a Saban - but how many coaches are? We need him to get good MAC players, develop them, and keep them in the program. We have solid players coming back. Biggest concern is what has been addressed in other comments - why we don't come out fired up and why we get hit with so many penalties. Those are coaching issues to be addressed.

We are not going to beat CMU. We are probably going to be embarrassed by CMU. If we can beat EMU and BG - I have reason to be optimistic heading into next year. If we only manage to beat EMU - not optimistic at all. If we lose all three games - I'll have some of that Kool-Aid please.

Your memory is correct Moto. I think Meger was actually a redshirt Soph. We were 4 pts. away from a 11-0 season and got hosed at CMU. Couple of bad ref calls and with 5 second left in the game Romaldo Brown caught a ball at the 4 yard line near our sideline and was called out of bounds. Replay from TV video showed he had both feet in. We ended up having to kick a 50 yard field goal into the wind instead of a simple chip shot and on the last play of the game and it fell short. We lost 13-12. I think CMU had something like 3 plays over 15 yards. We dominated the game and lost of heartbreaker that caused us not to go to the Bowl game that year. So far Beckman is a far cry from Saban. Trust me when I say if someone made a boneheaded penalty when Saban was our coach, which is an epidemic on this team, players were help accountable and in most cases their a-- was on the bench for a while to think about it. We also played something called Defense. I think the MOST points scored against us that year was 20 pts. Imagine that.

(11-01-2009 03:36 PM)MiamiRocket Wrote:  

(11-01-2009 03:21 PM)owen Wrote:  We were losing and it was a sad state of affairs but Tom and most of his players were not scoundrels.

I agree. Unfortunately, there were a few bad apples who ruined it for everyone, and ultimately the coaches are held responsible.

The one kid never saw the field either. And he never got a dime of scholarship money. He was just here hoping for a chance someday and regrettably got tied to the team.

And the crazy situation with Richard Davis, best I can tell, he was never convicted of any crime.

(11-01-2009 02:57 PM)Shrakkrocket Wrote:  We never had to play a true freshman at qb, Beckman chose to. Pettee looked good in the spring game(much better than Lenehan imo) and has shown on the field when put in that he can handle it.

I think it's been obvious that Dantin is better than Pettee, he just didn't have the spring to learn the offense like the other QB's so he is a step behind there, and he lacks experience. Pettee does not really fit the type of offense that we run now the way that Dantin does. At this point we might be better off letting Dantin play as much as possible to get ready for next year. Maybe, maybe not.

Pettee did do okay in the spring game. Completed 66% of his passes for 203 yards and one touchdown, but he also threw two interceptions. Plus, every QB that has faced our defense this year has put up huge numbers against the pass.

But to be fair to Pettee, he is a solid passing quarterback. He's not very mobile though, and despite being a junior he did not have any DI-A playing experience before this season.

Pettee has done a fine job, as well as Dantin, but there is no question that our offense was clicking much better before Opelt's injury. You cannot deny that.

(11-01-2009 11:36 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  Biggest concern is what has been addressed in other comments - why we don't come out fired up and why we get hit with so many penalties. Those are coaching issues to be addressed.

I honestly don't know the answer to what I am about to ask, and I am not trying to defend any coaches either, but this is a very valid question.

Not coming up and committing so many penalties has been a problem for a few seasons now. Before we blamed it on the previous coaching staff. Are we to blame the new coaching staff now? Did we really have such a bad coaching staff before, and again now? Or is it the players? Trying to use scientific reason here, the players are the common denominator over the last few years.

Maybe that is unfair to the players; I don't know. It just seems fishy that we are complaining about the same things from a new coaching staff. Thoughts?

I think we'll know about 4 games into the 2010 MAC schedule(not OOC) if Coach Beckman is "the guy" or not. Not totally talking about win/record at that point, but whether or not the overall program has significantly improved enough. I hope Coach Beckman will not fall into the same trap as Stutz and hold on to Assistants that aren't getting the job done or bring in ones that are disruptive forces. The football Rockets can't afford to be a project for too long. Winning football is the only thing that will fill the Glass Bowl. Alot of the goodwill that was accomplished early went out the window with the Miami debaucle and the nature of the Homecoming loss to WMU. Probably the only thing at this point to salvage what was lost would be to regroup and win-out the rest of the schedule.

(11-01-2009 02:37 PM)rocketfootball Wrote:  

(11-01-2009 02:09 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  Who is calling the offense?

The guy that won national championships at the DI-AA level with Appalachian State, and beat Michigan a couple of years ago.

Why are we questioning his play calling? Before Opelt got hurt we were doing pretty well on offense, ranked in the top ten in total offense. Unfortunately with Lenehan getting kicked off the team, we don't have much depth behind Opelt and had to play a true freshman (Austin Dantin) that is still learning the college game. Then when he got hurt the 3rd string QB had to play. We had 444 yards of total offense, including 216 on the ground, and we are questioning the play calling on offense?

Because as has been discussed on these threads, there's more to a game than yardage. With the defense suffering, ball control becomes more important and with the depth at RB we would seem to have the talent to accomplish that. Pass - pass on short second down yardage, particularly on the first series, isn't something that makes sense TO ME. Down three scores, needing two TDs and one FG to catch up with a 4th and long, within easy FG distance and going for the 1st, isn't something that makes sense TO ME.

There's a fairly long list of calls that have gone against "convention" and skill set so I ask you,

why not question the play calling? It's a fun thing to do.

(11-01-2009 04:26 PM)rocketfootball Wrote:  I think it's been obvious that Dantin is better than Pettee, he just didn't have the spring to learn the offense like the other QB's so he is a step behind there, and he lacks experience.

Dantin's fumble issues are extremely disturbing. I don't think he will be ready to play next season. He needs time to bulk up into a college football player. Maybe the summer will be enough time. (?)

(11-01-2009 04:55 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  I think we'll know about 4 games into the 2010 MAC schedule(not OOC) if Coach Beckman is "the guy" or not. Not totally talking about win/record at that point, but whether or not the overall program has significantly improved enough. I hope Coach Beckman will not fall into the same trap as Stutz and hold on to Assistants that aren't getting the job done or bring in ones that are disruptive forces. The football Rockets can't afford to be a project for too long. Winning football is the only thing that will fill the Glass Bowl. Alot of the goodwill that was accomplished early went out the window with the Miami debaucle and the nature of the Homecoming loss to WMU. Probably the only thing at this point to salvage what was lost would be to regroup and win-out the rest of the schedule.

agree

(11-01-2009 03:51 PM)owen Wrote:  And the crazy situation with Richard Davis, best I can tell, he was never convicted of any crime.

Davis' charges were dismissed.

(11-01-2009 05:04 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(11-01-2009 02:37 PM)rocketfootball Wrote:  

(11-01-2009 02:09 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  Who is calling the offense?

The guy that won national championships at the DI-AA level with Appalachian State, and beat Michigan a couple of years ago.

Why are we questioning his play calling? Before Opelt got hurt we were doing pretty well on offense, ranked in the top ten in total offense. Unfortunately with Lenehan getting kicked off the team, we don't have much depth behind Opelt and had to play a true freshman (Austin Dantin) that is still learning the college game. Then when he got hurt the 3rd string QB had to play. We had 444 yards of total offense, including 216 on the ground, and we are questioning the play calling on offense?

Because as has been discussed on these threads, there's more to a game than yardage. With the defense suffering, ball control becomes more important and with the depth at RB we would seem to have the talent to accomplish that. Pass - pass on short second down yardage, particularly on the first series, isn't something that makes sense TO ME. Down three scores, needing two TDs and one FG to catch up with a 4th and long, within easy FG distance and going for the 1st, isn't something that makes sense TO ME.

There's a fairly long list of calls that have gone against "convention" and skill set so I ask you,

why not question the play calling? It's a fun thing to do.

Maybe they went against "convention" because they figured the defense would be trying to stop the run? I know it's not fun to lose, but that's all we've done as Rocket fans is complain about the play calling for four or five years now.

If not for the fumble at the goal line, we would have scored 31 points on the road yesterday.

But if you want to question the play calling for fun, go ahead. After all, it's only for fun.

(11-01-2009 05:04 PM)owen Wrote:  

(11-01-2009 04:26 PM)rocketfootball Wrote:  I think it's been obvious that Dantin is better than Pettee, he just didn't have the spring to learn the offense like the other QB's so he is a step behind there, and he lacks experience.

Dantin's fumble issues are extremely disturbing. I don't think he will be ready to play next season. He needs time to bulk up into a college football player. Maybe the summer will be enough time. (?)

Dantin hasn't gone through the Winter conditioning and Spring ball yet.
Opelt is about 30 lbs heavier than when he was a freshman. Austin will learn to protect the football. I wouldn't be surprised to see him about
15 lbs heavier next fall.

(11-01-2009 08:12 PM)rocketfootball Wrote:  

(11-01-2009 05:04 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(11-01-2009 02:37 PM)rocketfootball Wrote:  

(11-01-2009 02:09 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  Who is calling the offense?

The guy that won national championships at the DI-AA level with Appalachian State, and beat Michigan a couple of years ago.

Why are we questioning his play calling? Before Opelt got hurt we were doing pretty well on offense, ranked in the top ten in total offense. Unfortunately with Lenehan getting kicked off the team, we don't have much depth behind Opelt and had to play a true freshman (Austin Dantin) that is still learning the college game. Then when he got hurt the 3rd string QB had to play. We had 444 yards of total offense, including 216 on the ground, and we are questioning the play calling on offense?

Because as has been discussed on these threads, there's more to a game than yardage. With the defense suffering, ball control becomes more important and with the depth at RB we would seem to have the talent to accomplish that. Pass - pass on short second down yardage, particularly on the first series, isn't something that makes sense TO ME. Down three scores, needing two TDs and one FG to catch up with a 4th and long, within easy FG distance and going for the 1st, isn't something that makes sense TO ME.

There's a fairly long list of calls that have gone against "convention" and skill set so I ask you,

why not question the play calling? It's a fun thing to do.

I know it's not fun to lose, but that's all we've done as Rocket fans is complain about the play calling for four or five years now.

maybe because it's been $hitty the last four or five years now!!!

Well as armchair quarterbacks I guess it is easy to say the play calling is $hitty, huh? I mean none of us have been college coaches so why not pretend we know what we are talking about. While I agree about suspect play calling the past couple of years, we also used to get awfully frustrated with some of Spence's calls, but since we were winning not much was said other than a comment here or there.

I have to disagree about the play calling this year though. Maybe we could have run the ball a little more than we have, but to say that our play calling this year has been $hitty is just ridiculous, IMO.

I'm excited.........that the majority of this "defense" ia graduating. I don't like criticizing scholarship players too much because they aren't getting paid, but this group as a whole never reached anything close to their billing. I know that Miami has been playing better over the last couple of games, but this was supposed to be one of our 6 wins. This shouldn't happen with senior laiden teams, but I guess it comes down to talent. Look at Indiana, another team full of seniors, but they can't win either. Here's to a new and full recruiting class.